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Published on:

10th Sep 2026

Everyone Meant Well. It Ended at Gunpoint

A man in West Africa was tied up and taken at gunpoint over a payroll schedule. Nobody in the story was a bad person.

Head office wanted to save money, so payroll moved from every two weeks to once a month. It made sense on a spreadsheet. Nobody asked the 600 guards how they lived, or knew that most of them were feeding whole villages on a two-week rhythm. Ten days later children were not eating. A bodyguard did the fastest thing he could think of to get someone's attention.

Leanne Terrace was there. She has spent the thirty years since working out why groups of well-meaning people keep doing this to each other, and what stops it.

This one is about companies. It is also about your HOA, your PTA, your church committee, and every group of humans that ever went quiet after somebody overruled them.

Leanne's book, Built to Think, comes out September 17.

Built to Think: https://builttothink.ai

Wired for Meaning: https://adelewang.substack.com

Transcript
Speaker:

and I can tell you

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100% of the CEOs that I work with have said to me

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oh I'm amazing

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in their own words I have an open door policy

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everything come everyone can talk to me

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come to me

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and we all are transparent and work things out

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I have never

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my favorite is found that it's just like a family

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I'm like it's just like a family

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yeah because in a family

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you don't have power structures

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that can result in people losing their livelihood

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to feed their kids welcome to all things human

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I'm Adele Wong my guest today is Liane Terrace

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Liane founded a leadership consultancy

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and an executive search

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she has spent 30 years

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watching groups of people work together

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to make decisions

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her book built to think comes out September 17th

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we begin in West Africa

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where Liane was in charge of a 600 person

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security operation

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the head office in California

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has decided to change payroll

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from once every two weeks

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to once a month

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days later the general manager ended up tied up

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and held at gunpoint

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no one in this story was a bad person

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and that's what makes this story so worthwhile

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Liam I wanna start with West Africa

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because I feel like that little story encompasses

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just about everything we're gonna talk about today

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so for the listeners and viewers

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who haven't had the opportunity to get your book yet

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tell us a little bit about that experience

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cause I've got a boatload of questions for you oh

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good just to give a context

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I was leading a national non profit

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and it was my dream job I had a little guy 2 years old

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and my then husband announced

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guess what

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haha

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we're moving to Africa and you're gonna help me build

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or you're gonna help me restructure and reposition

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a large security operation

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so keep in mind

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I've never done anything to do with security

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now we're not talking tech security that I know

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we were talking guns radios yeah

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that kind of security

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within within the next year

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I found myself arriving in a country in tension

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it stabilized and so

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I had arrived into a situation

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where the general manager had recently been taken

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hostage at gunpoint but I arrived soon after that

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everything was good and we went from there

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and so everything I knew about leadership was tested

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everything I knew about engaging people

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under the most extreme circumstances was tested

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so I Learned by fire

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which of my leadership principles were just blah

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blah blah and which of them really really worked

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and so it was an incredible opportunity to

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I'm a passionate learner like you Adele

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I question everything I wanna understand everything

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and I wanna figure out what works with people

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and it's all about the people

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and so I've always had the question of

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how do we help people come together

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make good decisions

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and actually implement things that stick

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and that keep working even when we're under pressure

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even when everyone thinks they have the right answer

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and they just want to be listened to and move forward

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the hostage taking

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was an example of people doing their best

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and coming up with what they thought was the best

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solution

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but not really

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so but so anyways

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that's a little bit of the context

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and so I was in that environment for almost six years

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and I Learned a lot

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I read this story and I said

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oh my gosh just about every

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every leadership quandary question about teamwork

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about communication is right there

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in West Africa

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we don't have to even look to corporate America

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I was curious you mentioned that the country manager

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he cut payroll from twice a week to once a month

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walk me through what he thought he was deciding

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if you were to jump into his skull

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he meant well yes

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what do you think he was thinking of

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when he made that decision

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his mandate often a new GM

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new president is given a mandate

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his mandate was to make this profitable

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it was losing amid six figures every month

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so his mandate was go in and make this profitable

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he wasn't really given a lot else beyond that

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and so what how do you do

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what do you do to make things profitable

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you increase revenue and you reduce cost

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so of course

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what is the fastest way to make profit

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reduce cost

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that is the fastest way most times and often

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it's not necessarily the long term solution

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but it certainly is the short term solution

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and

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head office had identified a number of possibilities

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keep in mind head office was sitting in California

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in comfortable offices in Pasadena

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and they decided these were

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the handful of initiatives that they had identified

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based on reports and information

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that could quickly reduce costs

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and so the the GM arrived with I must reduce cost

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increase profit

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and these are the mandates that they've told me

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hinted to me that they would

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they'd endorsed that this

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they thought this was a good idea

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and so he moved

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this was just within his first within his first month

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I believe and so he took action on

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and one of them was reducing payroll

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going from twice a week to once a month or sorry

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every other week to once a month

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just to give you an idea of the cost savings

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massive amounts of efforts

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because the digital age had not arrived to West Africa

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people did not have bank accounts

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they didn't trust the banks and nor should they

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and so

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people had to physically receive their pay in cash

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you're talking 600 people

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throughout a very large country

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without efficient distribution systems

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so this was taking money out of a bank in massive

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huge hockey bags of rolled up dirty

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smelly cash bills to a secure location

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which eventually I took over this process

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so it was like I felt like I was living in a war zone

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doing exciting things getting it to secure location

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then having that all secured

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portioning out every single person's pay into envelopes

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and cash with little payslips

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and then

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somehow getting that out through motorcycle couriers

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and foot couriers and and cars

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out throughout a massive country

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with lots of challenges to get out

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and with lots of rogue individuals

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who would be happy to intercept a cash

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payroll going out so we had to have decoys

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we had to have everything had to be

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new routes had to be done every time

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we had to do things differently

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we had to do different times because nobody

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we couldn't let anybody figure out the path

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and only a few people could know

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when and where this was happening

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or else we all of our

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all of our payroll would be ambushed and stolen

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doing that every other week was a huge undertaking

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and involved a lot of people and time

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so of course

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logical let's do it once a month

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but there were things that hadn't been thought through

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that he just didn't know about or wasn't aware of

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because it was a top down decision

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yes there are so many beautiful analogies of this

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dramatic situation that lives right here in the US

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we could just replace the players

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I'm struck by how this was a top down decision

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that someone never actually

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asked how the guards lived

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and the question becomes who would have known to ask

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I'm stepping into the leadership

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who would have known to ask

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and so it was a logical decision to the GM

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he's like oh

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that makes sense

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as opposed to having a discipline process

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a thoughtful process of who does this impact

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who needs to be consulted

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who does this touch

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and going out to those people without presupposing

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you know the answer

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right so it was presupposed that oh

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you get paid every other week

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you get paid every month no big deal

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we save a ton of money we reduce our risk

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the the question was never asked

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to the people who were being asked to change

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from biweekly to monthly

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and as a result

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the consequences were dramatic and profound

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and that one moment

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fractured the trust across the organization

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within a day

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yes and so it was like well

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within the moment

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it took a couple of days for it to rupture

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into a gunpoint hostage taking

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and the man who took him hostage got promoted

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yes and I think everyone listening this

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can think of a situation where a decision was made

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from top down sounded logical

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and something happened

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and maybe the hostage takers got promoted

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who made that call

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and what did everyone else learn from that

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it was it was just such an

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I'm a my whole book is built to think right

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helping teams solve problems

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without waiting for permission

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so setting up all of the very simple

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straightforward processes and agreements

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so that we don't have this type of thing happen

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so for me it was just like wow

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I walked into probably one of the most extreme examples

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of how these things logically break

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when we don't follow a discipline

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so one thing to say our values are important

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people first people are the point yes

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our values are important

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and the GM was carrying that value

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he strongly believed to the core of his heart

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the whole reason we went to Guinea

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was because people are the point

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and so despite having that value

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he got caught

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in moving quickly to solve a problem

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without going through a good process

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so nobody asked the guard

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whose payroll supported 17 people

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and whose payroll

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impacted the economics of a whole village

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so just think through it yourself

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you're getting paid every two weeks

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every penny of your pay is has has a purpose

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has a structure

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has a rhythm and you're impacting your whole community

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this wasn't so for all of the guards

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but for a lot of the guards

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particularly those that were outside of the city

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and so because they were highly paid

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relative to most people in

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in in the country and now you get paid

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there was some sort of a no

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there's no memos there's no email

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somewhere through the Grapevine

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you kind of heard that pay was moving

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to monthly whatever you don't think about it

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you allocate your 2 weeks pay

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and then the pay envelope doesn't arrive

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well now

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we have 600 men and four women

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who were critical to securing

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mines

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enterprises expat homes offices throughout the country

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and they were needed existed for a reason

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they weren't just your friendly Walmart security guard

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no these

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these people actively patrolled

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and actively secured these locations

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they had immediate threats almost every day

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now they had no money for food

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their children didn't have food their cousins

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aunties grandmas

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the money wasn't there and then they were told oh

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you got a full month

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you're not being paid for another two weeks

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they didn't really even kind of notice that

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they got more money it was cash

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it went out haha it felt generous this time

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it felt good this time

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and there seemed to be a little extra cool

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but they weren't

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they don't have sophisticated budget systems

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they don't have e transfer systems

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they didn't set it all up smart people

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but they it just worked differently

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and so now this is the situation

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so now you've got 600 people

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impacting thousands of people throughout communities

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who've all of a sudden realized

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they don't have money for food

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and it's not coming for two weeks or by this time

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maybe it's 10 days or whatever it is

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so this happened

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now the hostage taking keep in context right

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remember this all behavior makes sense

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and like you you say Adele

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it's just about getting curious

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it's about asking those questions

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because all behavior does make sense

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so you think

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they took their brand new boss hostage at gunpoint

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and literally tied him up

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bound him gagged him

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put him in a car to a location

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what that's crazy

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but keep in mind it makes sense

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and it just reminds me that there are a lot of smart

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well intentioned people who care about their staff

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none of this happened because someone was mean

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no and it's the

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your book is a lot about the importance of structure

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that just well intentioned or kind

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we are kind people it's interesting

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how powerful structure can be to support these

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these situations that no one thought about in advance

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yeah

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all it would have taken is a question

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yeah and so now you've got broken trust

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trust across the organization

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you've got panic across the organization

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however you have a very resourceful person

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this was the actual private bodyguard of

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the GM so he had access to the GM

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and for whatever reason he had Learned in the past

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that the voice of the guard was never heard

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it was rarely listened to the

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the voice coming up was not listened to

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that's what they had Learned

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and so

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they never even thought about having a conversation

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and don't forget they're also living in a country

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where the voices are not listened to

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it's a very top down

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very authoritarian type of governance

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even though it was democratic

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it wasn't I thought it was like a

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it was a dick

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dictatorship under the guise of a democracy right

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which is pretty common

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I think we're seeing that in our world

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and so they

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this very resourceful person had to move fast

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he needed to communicate urgency quickly

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he needed to get his message out

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and he needed action now

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right and he cared for the people too

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and so his resolution guess what

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hostage taking was a thing in this country

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I had two details all the time'cause guess what

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I stood out ha ha ha

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and this is what people did to get money

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make things happen communicate a message

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they take hostages and this was not an unusual solution

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and so he put two and two together and thought

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what is the fastest way that I can create urgency

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get attention and get action

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put somebody's life on the line

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there you go now

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was he a good person absolutely

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he was passionately thinking about children not eating

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right he was passionately thinking about his team

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his guards his community

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the culture the trust

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absolutely and this was his solution

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now had he communicated

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and used a little bit more of a collaborative process

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he might have come up with a different solution

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but this is what he came up with

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and so here we are

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anytime there is lack of structure or not thinking

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to ask people get very creative

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whether it's in West Africa or in corporate America

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hopefully we're not taking hostages with people anymore

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but left to our devices to get something done

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without structure we get creative

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and sometimes that's not the best solution and

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but we had two two

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two people two groups

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moving at velocity

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without doing consultant collaboration

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moving at velocity

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ending up in this rupture point in the rupture

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and so what did the GM do

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the GM took a breath and he went back to what he knew

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he said look

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let's have a conversation

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and so everyone put guns down untied

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and he promised a conversation

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he promised to listen he promised

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there would be a collaborative

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resolution to the problem

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but he needed to understand

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and so that was it

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they spent hours talking and understanding

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at the end of it he fully understood it

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he understood

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and they came to a conclusion what needed to be done

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and he negotiated with head office

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and they got an emergency bonus out to the field

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within a day or two I think it was about two

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2 days by the time it got out they

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and he put the the hostage taker in charge

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because this guy clearly

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knew how to organize things quickly

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and get and mobilize people'cause he'd mobilized

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the very large portion of people

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to make this hostage taking happen

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as quickly as it did

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without there being actual gunfire or death involved

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he did it very well he did it very

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as thoughtfully and thoroughly as you could

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in a hostage taking to ensure nobody died

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and he was in charge of it

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it happened

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we went back to every other week and by weekly sorry

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and then the trust was rebuilt

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and so putting then as you ask

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you said like

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how did this person get hired

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is so putting this person now in an esteemed

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influential position

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as the voice and representative of the guard force

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they trusted him he had done an amazing thing for them

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he had their back so

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he actually was now the best person for the GM

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to hire for this role

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he

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yeah this simple story

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very rich story illustrates how

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my interest is in how power moves in organizations

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and it doesn't have to be corporate

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it could be your local HOA

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it could be in West Africa

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that in a vacuum

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things move until there is a constraint

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we hope it's not someone being taken hostage

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but it was the thing that eventually caused a change

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that change or structure from what I'm researching

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it doesn't usually just happen out of the blue

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I think of power who's in charge of this

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we can put it on paper

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but my experience has been

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as long as power can be granted

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and taken away by someone's whim

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that's when people get a little nervous

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so I just loved your story

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I wanna move

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I wanna take some of your learnings from that

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into what you're seeing now with corporate America

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and I wanted to start with West Africa

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cause it's a perfect illustration

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of what's already happening here

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yeah and it's dramatic enough

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that we can all see the different layers going on

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you say in your book

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that leaders are rarely the weak link

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and most of them don't actually believe that

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what does it what would you recommend a leader do first

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when they still think that when something falls apart

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that it's a personal failing

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they are not yet

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recognizing how structure plays a huge part in it

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yeah so if you think of the

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if the leader has decided

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she or he is the hero in their organization

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and then things break

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then the hero failed

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and the hero

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the hero is a natural thing that happens with a founder

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you hold the vision you've held the vision

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you've created it you've birthed it

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you've grown it out of the toddler phase

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you've engaged people into your vision

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into your concept and you've started to put process

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and structure around it investment dollars

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shareholders etcetera

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you've grown it now to a teenager

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and now this organization is moving

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but you've been the hero of the story

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all the way through this point

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and what naturally happens is

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that whole process taught everyone who came into that

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that you are the hero because you're amazing

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you have the full context

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you understand everything that's going on

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you understand all the pluses and minuses

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you've been through all the problem solving

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you've been the solver right

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all the way through this you have been the solver

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now it's growing and so when things break

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often the leader or aka the hero goes oh my gosh

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I did it I failed I failed this company

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I some people might have enough ego

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that they're gonna find somebody to blame

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which then just destroys the culture

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and then that's when we see companies

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they go up to teenager

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they have all this possibility hope

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etcetera they may have even had millions fold into them

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but if the leader that now feels like a failed hero

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and they start looking for the

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the people they can blame

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then we see a company that just cracks and falls apart

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and or the board

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or shareholders

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pull that leader and put in somebody new

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that's a very common trend we see

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but let's talk about

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we're at the leader who feels like they failed

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they haven't failed what it is

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it's a signal

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it's a it's something to get their attention to go oh

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I need to switch models

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I need to move from being the solver to the sponsor

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I need to now sponsor people to solve the problems

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and because until the hero makes that switch

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everyone just knows it is easier and safer

524

:

to move the hard stuff up the ladder typically

525

:

give them give the leader more chickens

526

:

it's exactly easier that way

527

:

yeah part of the West Africa story

528

:

if there's more stories from Africa

529

:

you'll understand that

530

:

and I'm intrigued cause from my corporate experience

531

:

I have seen first hand when a team stops thinking

532

:

what do you typically notice

533

:

if a team has made a decision

534

:

oh we think X

535

:

y Z

536

:

and then either the hero or someone outside comes in

537

:

and everything gets overturned

538

:

we see this over and over

539

:

this is the source of a lot of misery

540

:

in corporate America I believe

541

:

this is a source of burnout

542

:

it's not always working people to death

543

:

it's putting your heart and soul into solving a problem

544

:

often with colleagues and having that all negated

545

:

that everything

546

:

everybody listening probably has that experience

547

:

that sense of deflation

548

:

I'm just curious what you have seen

549

:

you're probably brought in after the fact perhaps

550

:

and how do you restore trust

551

:

when it's been just destroyed like that

552

:

yes and you're right Adele

553

:

it's prevalent everywhere

554

:

it's why we have some of the largest

555

:

highest disengagement rates across North America

556

:

it's in Europe as well

557

:

but I don't know those numbers as well

558

:

Gallup of course

559

:

gives us incredible insight and numbers

560

:

and we know that people

561

:

having personal agency is the biggest antidote

562

:

but we destroy it with the example you gave

563

:

perfect example and so

564

:

what happens is

565

:

people learn that their thinking isn't valuable

566

:

people learn that their time is being wasted

567

:

their agency their ingenuity

568

:

their innovation all of those things that we

569

:

as human beings love to be and do

570

:

we love to create we love to resolve

571

:

we love to fix and solve but when that is wasted

572

:

when it goes nowhere when somebody overturns it

573

:

we resign ourselves to just doing our job

574

:

keeping our noses clean

575

:

and keeping safe'cause sometimes when you step out

576

:

a little bit like the guard who took the GM hostage

577

:

he stepped out it worked out well for him

578

:

but in corporate America

579

:

he might have just been fired and exited out the door

580

:

within a day he probably would have been

581

:

and so it uh

582

:

as opposed to looking at why did that behavior happen

583

:

why did that person step up

584

:

so

585

:

very few of us would actually step up and take a risk

586

:

incorporate America and because it's not safe

587

:

or the environment hasn't been made safe

588

:

that we could step out and step out

589

:

plus there's not the structure to do it

590

:

so because things keep get overturned

591

:

or we don't know who actually holds the authority

592

:

there's not clarity and so it's missing the structure

593

:

which actually creates the safety

594

:

which creates trust which creates better solutions

595

:

that's something that it's just yes

596

:

it's something that I feel very passionate about

597

:

that if you're wanting more engagement

598

:

but then you're overruling what people decide

599

:

and sometimes to use your analogy

600

:

the person overruling they're the hero

601

:

I'll come in and save the day

602

:

and they don't realize that what they're doing

603

:

negates a lot of work that's already been done

604

:

I don't think leaders intentionally

605

:

think they're deflating their teams

606

:

or burning their staff out

607

:

yeah what have you found as useful

608

:

to encourage leaders to notice this

609

:

because it takes a lot of restraint

610

:

perhaps

611

:

to not just barrel in there and make the decisions

612

:

for the team for everyone's good for their own good

613

:

this is often diplomatically a little bit tender

614

:

and what have you found works

615

:

because I don't think

616

:

I've spoken to any leaders who admit

617

:

to doing such things they think they're with their team

618

:

they think that their team

619

:

should just be more engaged with them

620

:

but something is missing would you not agree

621

:

I agree it is the first thing I look at and coach on

622

:

it's actually chapter 3 of the book

623

:

and then the rest of the book provides the next steps

624

:

so the the first thing is to move from a mentality of

625

:

I'm the hero and the solver to I'm the sponsor

626

:

so moving the mentality first right

627

:

so we always know that mindset is critical right

628

:

so even though our value is we care about people

629

:

we want the best for everyone

630

:

we know that we've got that

631

:

but how do you make that real

632

:

so the first shift is moving to being the sponsor

633

:

so what I mean by sponsor

634

:

it is my job as a leader to create the conditions

635

:

that people can make good decisions

636

:

for the short term and the long term

637

:

so it is not my job to solve everything

638

:

it is create the conditions

639

:

so then we move into okay

640

:

how do you create those conditions

641

:

so now we've got the mindset right

642

:

so it's like moving from Michael Bungay

643

:

Stanley writes a great book called The Advice Monster

644

:

Right and it's really about moving from being an advice

645

:

monster so being the all knowing solver

646

:

the hero to being a coach

647

:

to being more coach like

648

:

asking those good questions

649

:

and making sure the environment works

650

:

but what does that look like right

651

:

so it's all very well to tell people

652

:

be a solver or be a sponsor and be more coach

653

:

like okay

654

:

now what

655

:

so then we move into the next chapters

656

:

which helps the leader understand

657

:

what the structures are that allow them to do that

658

:

so that they can communicate this to

659

:

more than just in their head

660

:

they can

661

:

easily and quickly communicate this to their team

662

:

and gain agreement and understanding

663

:

and so what that looks like is that the

664

:

let's say we've got a problem

665

:

I call that the signal there's a signal

666

:

there's a problem an opportunity

667

:

maybe a gap of an invasion

668

:

we can possibly capture and be

669

:

become more of a leader so we see a signal

670

:

we need to respond to the signal

671

:

so we need to decide how we're gonna

672

:

respond to the signal you either own it

673

:

or you need to inform somebody

674

:

that you're shifting things slightly

675

:

or you need to maybe check in and do some consulting

676

:

or you actually need to collaborate

677

:

cause it's gonna impact a lot of people

678

:

and you need a lot more resources involved

679

:

so we know we need to bring in the expertise

680

:

we need to bring in the people it's gonna impact

681

:

we need to bring in the people who are participating

682

:

remember all the guards at home

683

:

who didn't get asked the question

684

:

what if we change your pay

685

:

so who's gonna be impacted needs to be involved

686

:

but the No. 1 element that gets missed so often

687

:

and creates this problem is

688

:

it's not made clear who has the authority

689

:

and where does that authority

690

:

where is that authority gonna stick or sit in this

691

:

let's call it a collaboration

692

:

so now think about it this way

693

:

we've got the ultimate authority here was the GM

694

:

if the guards went on their own

695

:

and started to solve a problem that was out there

696

:

but they didn't get the authority

697

:

or the sponsorship from the GM

698

:

then the GM might have

699

:

they might have invested all that time

700

:

you talked about their ideas moving in

701

:

getting and they've got this amazing solution

702

:

they come up with

703

:

and they come back to the GM and the GM goes ah

704

:

I don't think so no

705

:

we don't have a budget oh sorry

706

:

bring it back in 2027 yeah

707

:

no actually

708

:

I've got a team over here already

709

:

working on something similar

710

:

yours doesn't work it's a very

711

:

it's a deflating process so we solve that first

712

:

the sponsor needs to be clear about authority first

713

:

what authority or the person needs to ask right

714

:

so the sponsor can't know everything that's going on

715

:

so whoever wants to go solve something

716

:

they see a signal they see a problem

717

:

they want to solve it

718

:

they know to pull in the right people

719

:

if they can't do it all on their own

720

:

and they need to go get a sponsor

721

:

who has the authority and what authority do they have

722

:

and if the sponsor wants to be part of it

723

:

they're welcome to join

724

:

but they're an equal voice to everybody else

725

:

I think this authority piece is the fundamental key

726

:

that people

727

:

are having trouble wrapping their brains around

728

:

if people know that at any moment it could change

729

:

so you've given me authority to do this

730

:

but I know that you could override me or second guess

731

:

so how much authority you've made me responsible

732

:

but I don't have the authority

733

:

and since I if I'm a manager

734

:

I don't know I've got to manage my risk

735

:

so it's much easier to disengage and send chickens

736

:

then to stick my neck out

737

:

that West Africa story is perfect for how people

738

:

behave when there's a vacuum

739

:

when if you can't trust the authority

740

:

that causes a disengagement

741

:

and my impression is that sometimes

742

:

leaders don't recognize that

743

:

they feel like they are being open

744

:

they feel like they're being consistent

745

:

but the staff is suspiciously quiet

746

:

I I can tell you

747

:

I do an assessment when I go into an organization

748

:

it's kind of like a secret shopper

749

:

so I do an assessment and I can tell you

750

:

100% of the CEOs that I work with have said to me oh

751

:

I'm amazing in their own words

752

:

I have an open door policy

753

:

everything come everyone can talk to me

754

:

come to me

755

:

and we all are transparent and work things out

756

:

I have never

757

:

my favorite is found that it's just like a family

758

:

I'm like no

759

:

it's just like a family yeah

760

:

because in a family you don't have power structures

761

:

that can result in

762

:

people losing their livelihood to feed their kids yeah

763

:

so I've never found that to be true

764

:

that I love the story of the emperor who had

765

:

what is it transparent robes on

766

:

and it was just really actually he was naked

767

:

so it doesn't take a brave courtier to tell the emperor

768

:

that by the way

769

:

ha ha those invisible clothing we can see through it

770

:

you're naked and so it is an important

771

:

is it valuable analogy for CEOs to go oh

772

:

what if I am naked

773

:

I wonder and so one of the rules that or the agreements

774

:

I I prefer the word agreements over rules

775

:

that I work with leadership teams

776

:

as they understand these structures

777

:

is they come to an agreement with the person

778

:

with the authority who might be a president

779

:

a CEO or even just a senior ops leader

780

:

that if we follow the process

781

:

if we engage the right people

782

:

we go through a good

783

:

what I call a seven step problem solving process

784

:

and we consult with the experts

785

:

we engage the participants who are implementing it

786

:

we engage the right people

787

:

and so we come up with a good solution

788

:

that's easy to implement cause everyone was involved

789

:

right we didn't just do a top down and oh surprise

790

:

we don't have money anymore

791

:

so if that process is followed

792

:

the authority

793

:

if we were given the authority to do this process

794

:

and we were given our criteria

795

:

guidelines and our limits

796

:

and we stayed within that

797

:

the authority whether it's whoever the authority is

798

:

they cannot overturn it so they have to support it

799

:

I reserve the right to that's tempting

800

:

that doesn't exist exactly

801

:

and this is perfect segue to my next question

802

:

in your book you have a rule

803

:

that a sponsor can only override something

804

:

if they skip if the team skipped your APEX

805

:

like the 7 processes right

806

:

so but the the sponsor decides what step was skipped

807

:

what stops him from finding one

808

:

stops him from finding a skip step yeah

809

:

cause he gets to decide

810

:

whether a step is skipped or not right yeah

811

:

so through the process

812

:

it's following good problem solving

813

:

where the team is documenting their process

814

:

so throughout it they're documenting

815

:

here's the problem statement that we clarified

816

:

and then what was the criteria that we all worked with

817

:

what was the root cause analysis obviously

818

:

then the criteria we were given

819

:

then what were the alternatives we considered

820

:

what did we weigh it against

821

:

to eventually come up with the solution

822

:

we picked or solutions

823

:

how did we go about structuring our planning

824

:

did we decide on doing some pilots

825

:

and then what feedback mechanisms

826

:

have we built into our process

827

:

so that we can do continuous improvement

828

:

and continuous learning a sponsor is gonna be giving

829

:

getting those updates as the team moves along

830

:

there is a designated person who's

831

:

responsible to ensure that happens

832

:

call them a facilitator or problem solving expert

833

:

whatever else they have

834

:

the expertise in guiding the team through that process

835

:

if they're new if the team's experienced

836

:

somebody just takes that role

837

:

and that is all documented

838

:

of course AI now of course makes it so much easier

839

:

and I love that because there's a bit more transparency

840

:

for the for listeners who don't know

841

:

Leanne and I both have a quality science background

842

:

and that is so important for decision makers

843

:

so that things are not only based on gut or

844

:

we love intuition

845

:

but what happens when people feel insecure

846

:

with the vacuum is

847

:

it depends on how he feels

848

:

he might decide this he might decide that

849

:

it's vague but when you have documented a

850

:

B and C that for everyone to see

851

:

there's not as much questioning

852

:

the decisions seem to have much more basis

853

:

so I think that's really great

854

:

that your process has a certain amount of rigor

855

:

which is from my point of view

856

:

working with leaders is often missing

857

:

it's sort of yeah

858

:

people are used to gut feel

859

:

which is fine but not for everything

860

:

especially when teams are involved

861

:

yeah I think you're pointing to something that's really

862

:

important and I just want to emphasize that

863

:

the biggest challenge we have without that discipline

864

:

or that rigor if we go into the world of academics

865

:

rigor is something that defines them

866

:

oh it's the name of the game

867

:

it is it is it

868

:

you don't follow the research rigor

869

:

you are out

870

:

you no longer qualified to be in the academia world

871

:

you are not published you are not even regarded

872

:

so that's discipline of process

873

:

of doing things well and right

874

:

so that we come up with the best solution we can

875

:

within the criteria within the resources

876

:

within the short and long term consideration

877

:

that is the rigor the discipline of business

878

:

and it's not that we can't move fast

879

:

I argue that actually when you have discipline

880

:

you can move faster because guess what

881

:

when you don't when you move fast

882

:

this is what happened with the guard situation

883

:

with the hostage situation

884

:

they thought that going from we have a problem

885

:

children don't have food to the solution

886

:

and that is the biggest challenge teams have

887

:

because they have the whirlwind

888

:

and the urgency and the overwhelm

889

:

and somebody breathing down their neck

890

:

to perform and get results

891

:

so they go from I see a problem to here's the solution

892

:

and when we miss the discipline in between

893

:

we end up with

894

:

solutions that do not consider all the elements

895

:

that really are critical to the best solution

896

:

because we haven't considered who's gonna implement it

897

:

how does it impact them how does it impact our criteria

898

:

how does it impact our compliance

899

:

how does it impact our it systems

900

:

can we actually do this within our our infrastructure

901

:

so there's without falling a discipline

902

:

we go from problem to solution

903

:

and it's always gonna be reworked

904

:

it's gonna hit resistance

905

:

it's gonna hit it's gonna create Learned

906

:

helplessness'cause people give up

907

:

trying to give feedback and they just execute it

908

:

even though they know

909

:

it's the stupidest idea in the world

910

:

they ignore it

911

:

or you just break trust throughout the organization

912

:

like the the in the security situation

913

:

and when we break trust

914

:

it's really hard to recover absolutely

915

:

I think there's a myth or a presupposition

916

:

that a rigor and discipline just takes too long

917

:

we don't have time for that

918

:

we don't have time for that

919

:

like nobody has time for the most important elements

920

:

but how much time do you have for rework

921

:

how much time do you have for

922

:

losing trust of your employees

923

:

that's very expensive but if you have a process

924

:

getting the background data or whatever

925

:

doesn't take that long'cause you know

926

:

the questions to ask very efficient

927

:

so these meetings don't have to be wordy and long

928

:

just question answer it's very efficient

929

:

when people know how to work a structure

930

:

a a process if you don't know

931

:

then you're fumbling in the dark with every meeting

932

:

and that is frustrating wouldn't you agree

933

:

that's when people just say

934

:

I can't handle any more meetings

935

:

I just gotta get work done

936

:

exactly we are very poor in processes in general

937

:

running meetings oh my gosh

938

:

wasted time people can't stand meetings

939

:

my experience has been that

940

:

if you know what you're doing

941

:

meetings can be Uber efficient yeah

942

:

they can be enjoyable it's a time for people to connect

943

:

people actually look forward to meetings

944

:

I know that's unheard of right now

945

:

because many meetings are so poorly run

946

:

because we don't have process yeah

947

:

so the companies that I work with within

948

:

it it's not it's not an overnight

949

:

it takes everybody takes time

950

:

but within six months to a year

951

:

I'll give I'll go into their initial meetings

952

:

and I'm doing an assessment

953

:

and supporting them to go through

954

:

a transformation that they are looking for

955

:

they're wanting

956

:

they know things are broken and work is broken right

957

:

it's not working

958

:

so they want to go through this transformation

959

:

that's an important first step

960

:

but then from a meeting at the beginning of the year

961

:

which maybe went for four hours and went nowhere

962

:

and then nobody really was quite sure what we agree on

963

:

and then guess what the next meeting

964

:

it starts all over again to walking into their meetings

965

:

which is where I just find it so exciting

966

:

walking into a meeting that's 45 minutes long bang

967

:

decisions made things work through parking lots

968

:

managed action items it's very exciting

969

:

I'm gonna give an analogy that I use

970

:

to help people really see this picture

971

:

cause we can all

972

:

we all understand the meeting that didn't go anywhere

973

:

we all get that

974

:

but imagine if two soccer teams arrived on the field

975

:

and they actually didn't have a game in mind

976

:

they just arrived on the field

977

:

a whole bunch of people

978

:

they had different jerseys on and somebody said

979

:

what shall we play we have this round ball

980

:

how long is it gonna take them

981

:

before they can actually start playing the game

982

:

right

983

:

they've got to decide what can you touch on the ball

984

:

where's the ball go what is the goal

985

:

we are kind of goal oriented so we're gonna have a goal

986

:

how do we count a goal what does the goal

987

:

look like who can get to the goal

988

:

and then we're gonna get into this game

989

:

we're gonna realize oh

990

:

we need to kind of think about off sides

991

:

cause you can't just plant somebody beside the goal

992

:

and lob a ball all the way over and have them score

993

:

that's just not a fair game so okay

994

:

we're gonna put in offside and then oh

995

:

somebody kicks somebody somebody mashed somebody down

996

:

that's not very sportsmanship that doesn't work okay

997

:

so we have to put in some rules how do we put in rules

998

:

we're gonna have penalties and we're gonna have cards

999

:

so you just realize

:

00:42:11,666 --> 00:42:14,300

the complexity of rules and agreements that

:

00:42:14,300 --> 00:42:17,966

that grow so that now when you have a soccer game

:

00:42:17,966 --> 00:42:21,366

run under whatever association rules and guidelines

:

00:42:21,366 --> 00:42:22,500

everyone walks on the field

:

00:42:22,500 --> 00:42:25,200

and they know exactly what they're playing with

:

00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,233

and how to play and how to work together

:

00:42:27,233 --> 00:42:29,233

and how to manage things

:

00:42:29,233 --> 00:42:30,766

and you've got a referee in there

:

00:42:30,766 --> 00:42:31,900

supporting the process

:

00:42:31,900 --> 00:42:34,000

making sure everyone stays on track

:

00:42:34,166 --> 00:42:38,466

that is discipline that's the discipline that that I'm

:

00:42:38,466 --> 00:42:40,566

I'm bringing in in in my

:

00:42:40,666 --> 00:42:42,300

with my private client engagements

:

00:42:42,300 --> 00:42:44,266

is I'm helping the team agree

:

00:42:44,266 --> 00:42:45,400

and they all do it uniquely

:

00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,033

every organization is there's no cookie cutter

:

00:42:48,033 --> 00:42:50,300

but they all follow the same principles right

:

00:42:50,300 --> 00:42:51,200

we all

:

00:42:51,366 --> 00:42:55,500

are converging on the same principles of what works

:

00:42:55,500 --> 00:42:58,100

I think discipline that word scares people

:

00:42:58,100 --> 00:43:01,466

they think it's almost punitive or restrictive

:

00:43:01,466 --> 00:43:02,766

and I want freedom

:

00:43:02,766 --> 00:43:05,600

don't tell me what I can and cannot do

:

00:43:05,633 --> 00:43:09,200

but it can be such a strength because without it

:

00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,866

without structure without discipline

:

00:43:11,966 --> 00:43:13,833

and all the things that we're passionate about

:

00:43:13,833 --> 00:43:15,666

I'm very much a structure person

:

00:43:15,666 --> 00:43:17,833

I need to see how things move

:

00:43:17,833 --> 00:43:19,266

if you don't have that

:

00:43:19,266 --> 00:43:22,533

you are left with everything being kind of

:

00:43:22,766 --> 00:43:24,333

personality driven

:

00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,166

and there's nothing wrong with team dynamics

:

00:43:26,166 --> 00:43:27,800

and non violent communication

:

00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,400

and Myers Briggs and all these things

:

00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,400

these tools that are designed to help you

:

00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,266

it's useful but without structure

:

00:43:35,466 --> 00:43:36,633

that is exhausting

:

00:43:36,633 --> 00:43:39,033

you're relying on charisma to move people

:

00:43:39,033 --> 00:43:41,566

instead of data it doesn't have to feel rushed

:

00:43:41,766 --> 00:43:43,433

it doesn't have to feel restrictive

:

00:43:43,433 --> 00:43:44,766

but right now

:

00:43:44,833 --> 00:43:48,000

many meetings in trying to force structure

:

00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:49,800

they feel very stifled

:

00:43:50,033 --> 00:43:52,433

you can feel it rumbling under the surface

:

00:43:52,433 --> 00:43:55,133

that something never quite sat right

:

00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,900

but it's rumbling and people just go along with it

:

00:43:57,900 --> 00:43:59,633

yes and have you noticed that

:

00:43:59,633 --> 00:44:02,400

like when people try to impose a structure

:

00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:05,300

without a discipline of some kind

:

00:44:05,300 --> 00:44:09,633

that has data behind it no one can really feel secure

:

00:44:09,633 --> 00:44:11,033

it's just okay

:

00:44:11,033 --> 00:44:13,166

we're expected only 10 minutes on this topic

:

00:44:13,166 --> 00:44:15,366

five minutes on that and that's it

:

00:44:15,500 --> 00:44:16,500

have you noticed that

:

00:44:16,500 --> 00:44:19,633

when people try to put meeting structure on there

:

00:44:19,633 --> 00:44:22,800

without the discipline behind it

:

00:44:23,033 --> 00:44:26,833

yes so I do bring in personality right

:

00:44:26,833 --> 00:44:27,600

I like I appreciate

:

00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,400

I know you do and I'm all for it

:

00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,233

but I'm saying without what we're talking

:

00:44:31,233 --> 00:44:32,500

because what happens is the

:

00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:33,800

is what I call the yellow

:

00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,066

the administrator

:

00:44:35,166 --> 00:44:38,600

they're amazing at bringing process and structure

:

00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:39,900

and building the discipline

:

00:44:40,033 --> 00:44:42,866

so they are the ones who are most pained

:

00:44:42,866 --> 00:44:45,266

when a meeting isn't following a good process

:

00:44:45,266 --> 00:44:47,733

or it's wandering all over the place right

:

00:44:47,900 --> 00:44:49,833

they're the ones who are most pained by it

:

00:44:49,833 --> 00:44:52,700

and if they have any kind of authority or as you say

:

00:44:52,700 --> 00:44:56,333

charisma or they hold authority positional authority

:

00:44:56,466 --> 00:44:59,166

they will bring in some sort of structure

:

00:44:59,166 --> 00:45:02,933

but their personality style is very structured haha

:

00:45:03,100 --> 00:45:06,133

and it may be a little bit more to the extreme

:

00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:12,633

and so the the team needs to recognize when we

:

00:45:12,633 --> 00:45:15,266

we do divergent thinking

:

00:45:15,266 --> 00:45:17,700

and when we do convergent thinking

:

00:45:18,066 --> 00:45:19,366

and so the

:

00:45:19,366 --> 00:45:23,466

the sort of the very linear structured person can't

:

00:45:23,466 --> 00:45:26,066

can't always hold that throughout the meeting

:

00:45:26,166 --> 00:45:28,000

there are points and times

:

00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:29,633

it's a flow it's an ebb and flow

:

00:45:29,633 --> 00:45:32,133

is it the discipline is actually an ebb and flow

:

00:45:32,566 --> 00:45:34,000

where we go out

:

00:45:34,666 --> 00:45:38,433

where we hear and listen and understand everyone

:

00:45:38,433 --> 00:45:40,500

and then we have a collaborative process

:

00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:42,066

to come back in again

:

00:45:42,266 --> 00:45:44,100

for a final decision and we do that

:

00:45:44,100 --> 00:45:47,266

that the discipline runs through that because that

:

00:45:47,266 --> 00:45:48,500

what you've described

:

00:45:48,500 --> 00:45:51,866

is somebody who's decided how it will be

:

00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:52,833

and guess what

:

00:45:52,833 --> 00:45:54,966

they actually have the answer in their mind

:

00:45:54,966 --> 00:45:56,100

and all they're trying to do is

:

00:45:56,100 --> 00:45:59,300

drive everyone to their answer yes

:

00:45:59,300 --> 00:46:00,966

yeah and everyone means well

:

00:46:00,966 --> 00:46:04,566

everyone's like that manager in West Africa

:

00:46:04,566 --> 00:46:07,866

nobody is trying to be nasty about it

:

00:46:07,866 --> 00:46:09,633

they're trying to get stuff done

:

00:46:09,633 --> 00:46:10,966

yeah and

:

00:46:11,033 --> 00:46:12,766

cause I just love this

:

00:46:12,766 --> 00:46:14,600

because I can feel the complexities involved

:

00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,600

there's no one right answer

:

00:46:16,833 --> 00:46:19,300

and many leaders just tell me what I'm supposed to do

:

00:46:19,300 --> 00:46:20,566

no at this point

:

00:46:20,566 --> 00:46:22,266

you're building the muscle

:

00:46:22,266 --> 00:46:23,800

you're building the resilience

:

00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,633

to handle even more complexity

:

00:46:25,633 --> 00:46:29,066

especially with AI especially with AI

:

00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,333

that it's the human element

:

00:46:31,733 --> 00:46:33,166

we're hearing over and over

:

00:46:33,166 --> 00:46:33,700

how

:

00:46:33,700 --> 00:46:36,000

the human element is so important in the world of AI

:

00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,200

and it hasn't been articulated clearly enough yet

:

00:46:40,266 --> 00:46:41,966

what that means and so

:

00:46:41,966 --> 00:46:44,866

I love these conversations with the level of detail

:

00:46:44,866 --> 00:46:45,700

that hopefully

:

00:46:45,700 --> 00:46:46,866

if you're listening to this

:

00:46:46,866 --> 00:46:49,833

you have experienced what it's like to be

:

00:46:49,833 --> 00:46:52,066

the manager that just charges for the answer

:

00:46:52,066 --> 00:46:53,100

or you've been

:

00:46:53,100 --> 00:46:54,766

offering chickens to your boss'cause

:

00:46:54,766 --> 00:46:56,766

you just don't wanna deal with the hard problem

:

00:46:56,766 --> 00:46:59,966

or you just disengage I've been all those

:

00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,733

so we Learned through the school of hard knocks

:

00:47:03,633 --> 00:47:05,166

so I like that you mentioned the

:

00:47:05,166 --> 00:47:08,400

how important the foundations are before AI comes in

:

00:47:08,633 --> 00:47:12,066

AI is actually what created my personal urgency

:

00:47:12,066 --> 00:47:16,100

to finally get everything I've Learned over 30 years

:

00:47:16,100 --> 00:47:17,666

and all the pieces I've put together

:

00:47:17,666 --> 00:47:19,166

to support my private clients

:

00:47:19,266 --> 00:47:21,266

into a book like you Adele

:

00:47:21,266 --> 00:47:23,300

I'm very service oriented

:

00:47:23,300 --> 00:47:24,800

those who watch my bank account

:

00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:26,400

my accounts would say to a fault

:

00:47:26,866 --> 00:47:29,333

but that is what I choose to be in my world

:

00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,566

and so I am passionate about people having

:

00:47:32,633 --> 00:47:35,200

great places to work and so

:

00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,333

when I saw what AI was doing

:

00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,666

in organizations that didn't have good foundations

:

00:47:42,166 --> 00:47:45,366

I could see it just really cracking that trust

:

00:47:45,833 --> 00:47:46,966

in a massive ways

:

00:47:46,966 --> 00:47:50,066

and or creating even more broken work places

:

00:47:50,300 --> 00:47:53,033

so all the promise of AI which is exciting

:

00:47:53,033 --> 00:47:55,300

and I've been studying it like you for gosh

:

00:47:55,300 --> 00:47:58,066

I guess we're up to getting close to four years now

:

00:47:58,166 --> 00:47:59,300

working to become an expert

:

00:47:59,300 --> 00:48:00,200

and then it moves out

:

00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:02,700

the expertise benchmark keeps moving right

:

00:48:02,700 --> 00:48:03,600

so we just have every

:

00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,600

every week we have to study and learn

:

00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,466

but humans we remain the same

:

00:48:08,466 --> 00:48:10,666

with all of our neuroses and problems

:

00:48:10,700 --> 00:48:12,033

we haven't shifted yeah

:

00:48:12,033 --> 00:48:13,700

we need that foundation

:

00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,366

that's why I'm so passionate about these conversations

:

00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,600

around the human element of power

:

00:48:18,700 --> 00:48:20,500

decision making leadership

:

00:48:20,633 --> 00:48:23,733

because it's not always going to be about

:

00:48:23,766 --> 00:48:26,300

charming people or it

:

00:48:27,100 --> 00:48:29,300

people have relied on that skill

:

00:48:29,300 --> 00:48:30,666

because there is a vacuum

:

00:48:30,666 --> 00:48:31,866

if you're negotiating with

:

00:48:31,866 --> 00:48:33,366

especially cross departmental

:

00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,666

cross functional things when the structure is very weak

:

00:48:37,033 --> 00:48:39,233

then you're left with relationship building

:

00:48:39,233 --> 00:48:41,566

which is important but it's fragile

:

00:48:41,566 --> 00:48:44,833

it doesn't have the full depth of

:

00:48:44,833 --> 00:48:46,200

if structure supported that

:

00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,500

oh my gosh I'm sure you've seen it

:

00:48:48,500 --> 00:48:50,866

and I have to ask you this burning question

:

00:48:50,866 --> 00:48:52,566

it felt it feels like

:

00:48:52,566 --> 00:48:54,466

when there's something that can't be resolved

:

00:48:54,466 --> 00:48:58,800

by the team the it gets escalated to the sponsor

:

00:48:59,033 --> 00:49:00,366

and the sponsor says

:

00:49:00,500 --> 00:49:02,900

you're in charge if you can't handle it

:

00:49:02,966 --> 00:49:05,000

the the role is to escalate to me

:

00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:06,600

and that sounds groovy

:

00:49:07,066 --> 00:49:10,433

what happens in your APEX model a means authority

:

00:49:10,433 --> 00:49:12,600

by the way everybody when

:

00:49:12,866 --> 00:49:14,733

if it's cross functional

:

00:49:15,166 --> 00:49:18,933

is no one to escalate a problem to

:

00:49:20,066 --> 00:49:21,866

how would your model handle that

:

00:49:21,866 --> 00:49:25,400

because that is a problem that is starting to bubble up

:

00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,500

now with AI that everyone is doing their job

:

00:49:29,366 --> 00:49:30,500

doing it well

:

00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:34,966

and these these different objectives don't align

:

00:49:35,866 --> 00:49:37,366

and there is

:

00:49:37,366 --> 00:49:41,133

what do you do when there's no owner of to make that s

:

00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,600

that problem escalated to yeah

:

00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,700

I that is totally a great example

:

00:49:47,700 --> 00:49:49,600

because it's what AI is creating

:

00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:51,633

it's coming it's coming and more and more so

:

00:49:51,633 --> 00:49:54,866

because the AI solution can

:

00:49:54,866 --> 00:49:57,833

could completely transform what a company does right

:

00:49:57,833 --> 00:49:59,033

and how it does it

:

00:49:59,033 --> 00:50:01,666

because they need to respond to their clients

:

00:50:01,666 --> 00:50:02,300

expectations

:

00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:05,200

user expectations or a complete market shift

:

00:50:05,433 --> 00:50:06,666

and so the company

:

00:50:06,666 --> 00:50:11,333

the buggy whip company that was super disciplined

:

00:50:11,766 --> 00:50:13,766

they were really good at problem solving

:

00:50:13,766 --> 00:50:15,766

they had the most efficient factory

:

00:50:15,766 --> 00:50:18,866

and good profit margins producing buggy whips

:

00:50:19,100 --> 00:50:20,300

that organization

:

00:50:20,300 --> 00:50:22,233

that didn't pay attention to the signals

:

00:50:22,233 --> 00:50:24,933

of opportunity and or changing markets

:

00:50:25,033 --> 00:50:26,133

they went under

:

00:50:26,366 --> 00:50:29,266

as opposed to a company like Nokia kind of got stuck

:

00:50:29,266 --> 00:50:32,600

but initially what was Nokia doing prior to cell phones

:

00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,533

it had nothing to do with cell phones

:

00:50:34,700 --> 00:50:36,033

and they're a fascinating story

:

00:50:36,033 --> 00:50:38,000

and IKEA also a fascinating story

:

00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,300

but of course both of them then got stuck in their own

:

00:50:40,300 --> 00:50:41,600

kind of gotten their own way

:

00:50:42,033 --> 00:50:46,766

but it's responding to how do we as an organization

:

00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,000

follow our good disciplines and our good processes

:

00:50:50,066 --> 00:50:52,066

but actually respond

:

00:50:52,066 --> 00:50:55,100

and look at things at an organizational level

:

00:50:55,166 --> 00:50:56,866

and look at the marketplace

:

00:50:56,866 --> 00:50:59,466

and so I actually have an annual process

:

00:50:59,466 --> 00:51:00,866

could be biannual now I think

:

00:51:00,866 --> 00:51:01,500

I'm going to

:

00:51:01,500 --> 00:51:03,066

encourage people to think of it as biannual

:

00:51:03,066 --> 00:51:04,566

because things are moving so fast

:

00:51:04,833 --> 00:51:06,200

but an annual process

:

00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,400

that the senior leadership team goes through

:

00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:09,600

and it's called I call it

:

00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,266

it's looking around corners

:

00:51:11,766 --> 00:51:13,366

don't go a lot into that in the book

:

00:51:13,366 --> 00:51:16,100

but give you there's some materials that go off

:

00:51:16,100 --> 00:51:18,100

resources that go off the side of it

:

00:51:18,100 --> 00:51:20,366

but it's around it's about looking around corners

:

00:51:20,366 --> 00:51:22,666

so as a team is maybe building something

:

00:51:22,666 --> 00:51:24,166

and growing something in their solution

:

00:51:24,166 --> 00:51:26,066

and they realize there

:

00:51:26,066 --> 00:51:27,900

we need to do this is something bigger

:

00:51:27,900 --> 00:51:30,433

like it either was gonna take a massive investment

:

00:51:30,433 --> 00:51:32,966

or it's a complete shift it's like

:

00:51:32,966 --> 00:51:35,633

they realize that just solving it within

:

00:51:35,633 --> 00:51:37,466

their constraints of their company

:

00:51:37,466 --> 00:51:39,200

isn't going to solve things

:

00:51:39,300 --> 00:51:40,900

they need to go beyond that

:

00:51:40,900 --> 00:51:46,266

and that's where you have a leadership team or a

:

00:51:46,266 --> 00:51:50,566

you form a team that is about looking around corners

:

00:51:50,700 --> 00:51:53,233

and doing that on a regular basis

:

00:51:53,233 --> 00:51:55,700

ensures that you don't get caught off guard

:

00:51:55,833 --> 00:51:58,666

so you've got a team that is in charge of

:

00:51:58,666 --> 00:52:00,566

outside of their regular day to day rules

:

00:52:00,566 --> 00:52:01,700

they come out of that role

:

00:52:01,700 --> 00:52:03,466

they're collectively in a team

:

00:52:03,566 --> 00:52:06,700

and they're looking at technology shifts

:

00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,766

marketplace shifts competitors shifts

:

00:52:09,900 --> 00:52:10,833

you so their

:

00:52:10,833 --> 00:52:12,666

what their clients are experiencing

:

00:52:12,666 --> 00:52:13,933

different or shifting

:

00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,000

the assumptions that they have in place

:

00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:17,366

are those still true

:

00:52:17,366 --> 00:52:20,533

so it is doing it's also called strategic planning

:

00:52:20,566 --> 00:52:23,166

but I like calling it looking around corners haha

:

00:52:23,866 --> 00:52:24,900

oh I love this

:

00:52:24,900 --> 00:52:27,966

because I have felt that what you're talking about

:

00:52:28,033 --> 00:52:30,066

is really the next level of leadership

:

00:52:30,066 --> 00:52:33,400

we haven't had a chance to develop those muscles yet

:

00:52:33,566 --> 00:52:35,600

because we haven't got the basics down

:

00:52:35,633 --> 00:52:37,466

if you don't even have the basics

:

00:52:37,466 --> 00:52:40,266

and you want to do strategic planning at that level

:

00:52:40,266 --> 00:52:40,900

it doesn't work

:

00:52:40,900 --> 00:52:44,000

it's like people want to run before they can crawl

:

00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,300

and they're just yelling at people to hurry up

:

00:52:46,566 --> 00:52:48,166

and that doesn't work too well

:

00:52:48,166 --> 00:52:50,466

so if you've got a senior ops leader

:

00:52:50,466 --> 00:52:53,233

who is working 10 hour days

:

00:52:53,233 --> 00:52:54,766

and then putting in weekends

:

00:52:54,766 --> 00:52:58,700

and she's managing a family or he's managing a family

:

00:52:58,700 --> 00:53:00,966

and they kind of love to have dinner together

:

00:53:00,966 --> 00:53:03,200

maybe even take the kids to baseball on the weekend

:

00:53:03,233 --> 00:53:06,233

and that's being crossed out on a regular basis

:

00:53:06,233 --> 00:53:08,666

because of just the the low

:

00:53:08,666 --> 00:53:10,700

the whirlwind of the day

:

00:53:10,766 --> 00:53:12,966

to ask that person to sit out for two days

:

00:53:12,966 --> 00:53:15,000

and do some data analysis

:

00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,266

market research which of course AI is gonna help them

:

00:53:17,266 --> 00:53:20,500

but it's a big ask but it's critical because otherwise

:

00:53:20,500 --> 00:53:23,000

they're gonna be the best buggy whip company

:

00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,500

in the world with no buggies hahaha

:

00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,866

so if a senior ops folks or the senior marketing folks

:

00:53:30,866 --> 00:53:34,700

if they can get foundationally things running

:

00:53:34,900 --> 00:53:36,900

so that the signals the problems

:

00:53:36,900 --> 00:53:37,700

and opportunities

:

00:53:37,700 --> 00:53:39,633

are being dealt with at the front line

:

00:53:39,633 --> 00:53:41,966

cause the front line knows how to solve problems

:

00:53:41,966 --> 00:53:44,166

collectively when it's slightly

:

00:53:44,166 --> 00:53:45,233

when it's new or different

:

00:53:45,233 --> 00:53:47,666

it goes outside of their sort of SOS

:

00:53:48,033 --> 00:53:50,666

then they get solved in the best place

:

00:53:50,966 --> 00:53:53,800

and then it freeze up that senior leadership team

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to be looking around corners

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and to be innovating and moving with the market

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so it makes it very exciting

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makes it an exciting place to work

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oh we have a long way to go

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I envision a day where people work only 38 to 40

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hours a week and you don't need to burn people out

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I'd like to see a day where leaders will know

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they have the resources to do the strategic planning

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00:54:17,433 --> 00:54:19,800

when they're less busy what I got out of your book

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00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:21,566

I was so excited when I read it

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is the focus on quality science principles

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00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,066

that had nothing to do with your personality style

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it's basic being able to ask the right questions

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and build decisions that everyone can agree on

:

00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:37,366

that is still relatively a new concept

:

00:54:37,366 --> 00:54:40,566

I think because of this we got to get it done quickly

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00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,866

but all that's happening is it's taking 10 times longer

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00:54:43,866 --> 00:54:44,966

to get anything done

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00:54:44,966 --> 00:54:47,166

and especially in large corporations

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00:54:47,500 --> 00:54:49,400

where there's a lot of bureaucracy

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00:54:49,566 --> 00:54:53,000

I don't think large corporations need to be so slow

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00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:54,333

but right now

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that's the only way things are getting done

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00:54:57,300 --> 00:54:59,400

everything is funneled up to one or two people

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00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:01,066

at the top who are exhausted

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00:55:01,433 --> 00:55:04,600

decisions get revisited and we start all over again

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00:55:04,833 --> 00:55:07,066

that that was just a perfect summary

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00:55:07,366 --> 00:55:09,266

yeah you just described it all

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00:55:09,266 --> 00:55:12,733

that's that's what we're working at fixing exactly

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00:55:12,966 --> 00:55:15,033

yeah and in this model

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00:55:15,033 --> 00:55:15,566

hopefully

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00:55:15,566 --> 00:55:19,266

people can see how there's another way to do things

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that doesn't require a grip on anyone's throat

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00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,633

it's just more

:

00:55:25,633 --> 00:55:27,466

what would be the how would you summarize this

:

00:55:27,466 --> 00:55:29,733

if you had to pick three words

:

00:55:30,066 --> 00:55:32,033

that people could just hold in their brain

:

00:55:32,033 --> 00:55:33,500

when they think about your book

:

00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,800

built to think what would three words be

:

00:55:41,233 --> 00:55:43,666

I can't do it in three words I have a sentence

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00:55:45,166 --> 00:55:47,033

I'll take a sentence maybe

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00:55:47,033 --> 00:55:49,433

so the sentence I would use is

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00:55:49,433 --> 00:55:51,800

create the environment where people can see a signal

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00:55:53,066 --> 00:55:54,600

they know how to respond

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00:55:55,566 --> 00:55:57,000

and then they can learn

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00:55:58,666 --> 00:56:00,866

if people want to be on the pre launch journey

:

00:56:00,866 --> 00:56:02,400

if you're curious about how it go

:

00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,066

you go about launching a book

:

00:56:04,066 --> 00:56:07,800

you can go to built to think dot AI and you can sign up

:

00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,733

and we have some pre materials

:

00:56:10,866 --> 00:56:12,900

and everyone who signs up before the launch

:

00:56:12,900 --> 00:56:17,133

will actually get a free companion workbook

:

00:56:17,233 --> 00:56:18,900

the workbook comes out in October

:

00:56:18,900 --> 00:56:20,800

it's under wraps right now

:

00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:22,100

but it's gonna be phenomenal

:

00:56:22,100 --> 00:56:23,833

and it's gonna be an actual workbook

:

00:56:23,833 --> 00:56:26,866

that will help you as a leader or somebody you assign

:

00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:28,566

bring these principles

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00:56:28,633 --> 00:56:31,300

agreements and tools into your organization

:

00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,600

so you don't have to figure it out from the book

:

00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:35,200

we're going to put the exercises

:

00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:37,566

the models everything into the workbook

:

00:56:37,566 --> 00:56:41,066

if you sign up early to be part of my pre launch party

:

00:56:41,166 --> 00:56:42,366

then you will get the e

:

00:56:42,366 --> 00:56:45,166

workbook before it's even published

:

00:56:46,166 --> 00:56:49,166

that sounds fantastic I'll grab one of those myself

:

00:56:49,766 --> 00:56:50,833

that's Liane Terrace

:

00:56:50,833 --> 00:56:54,566

her book built to think comes out September 17th

:

00:56:54,566 --> 00:56:57,033

and you can get more information at built to think

:

00:56:57,033 --> 00:56:58,333

dot AI

:

00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,700

I'm Adele Wong and this is all things human

:

00:57:02,866 --> 00:57:04,066

see you next time

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About the Podcast

All Things Human with Adele Wang
How power works, in people and in machines.
How power works, in people and in machines. Especially in this time of massive and hyper-rapid change.

Adele Wang watches how people behave, in organizations and in ordinary life, and says the part most people leave out.

Some episodes are about work. Who decides, who gets blamed, what happens when nobody quite owns a decision. Some are about relationships. Why you know your neighbor's dog's name and not theirs. What we want from each other and what we're willing to admit we want.

The through line is the same either way. What's really going on underneath the thing everyone agrees to say.

💌 Join the conversation and get more exclusive insights at https://adelewang.substack.com